I was driving to work the other day listening to the latest Jill Scott album. I don't know why, but I started thinking about a conversation dj and I had about pick-up lines women could give men. Though we were talking about cheesy, silly lines, I started thinking of how women nowadays let a man know she's interested, yet still not fall completely into the antiquated role of women waiting around for a guy to get up the nerve to approach her or not fully embrace the role of , "I Am Woman. Hear Me Roar!" and club him over the head and drag him back to her lair. As always, I've bitten off more than I can chew....
Though I consider myself a modern woman, I appreciate some of the old-fashioned rules that come with male-female relations. Walk on the curb side of the sidewalk, open doors for me, and the best one, ask me out first. There is something I find attractive about a guy who knows what he wants and goes after it. I'm not talking stalker, but a guy with a goal (me) is hot. A guy friend of mine says it's because I like the chase. Maybe. I doubt it. However, if I were to take that position, what is wrong with that? I'll drop you the appropriate hints, but you have to seal the deal. I'm not into the game of making a guy jump through ridiculous hoops in order to get me to go out with them, but I like to know that he's willing to put in the effort for me. Does that make sense?
Then there are the women who are aggressive go getters. When it comes to approaching men, I'm not her. Also, I've heard from a lot of guys they don't consider her girlfriend material. Booty calls, are a different story. My guy friend says that he would like a girl to ask him out every once in awhile. Something about taking the pressure off him in having to be the one to make an effort. I say WTF? There are more women than there are men in this country. The pressure is on the woman. Therefore, he should make more of an effort. Even if girls drop hints to guys, they don't get it. I know, no one likes to be rejected, yet the chips seem to be stacked against the girls.
After all that, I'm confused and frustrated. Now what?
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
18 comments:
if im just gunning for a quick-n-dirty lay, then ill aggressively go after my target, but in terms of a relationship id much rather be the pursued than the pursuer.
i think its because the idea that someone liiiiikes you is quite nice and the fact that they want to go out of their way to get some of your hot piece is also quite nice, but if im not concerned about feelings i have no qualms being a go-getta
I agree with jersesjov - having someone like you makes you totally feel better. Granted I aggressively pursue my booty callees...but I think they like that. oy
Oh jeez. Ok, on one hand, what you've said is totally understandable. Everyone likes to be pursued. Reverse all the pronouns in your post (him to her, guy to girl) and you have the way we guys like it.
I disagree on your "more women in the world" argument. Let's just take the US. According to the Census Bureau, this country is 50.7% women. You guys have a whopping 0.07% on us. Take into account the age range of your dating pool, that works out to be maybe, at the most, a few ten thousand peppered from Anchorage to Alamaba. Negligible difference.
When you say the pressure is on the girls, I can't help but laugh. We've already determined the population difference is negligible... but the kicker is that you yourself acknowledged the old-fashioned precedent of "guy asks girl out". Where in there is the pressure on the girl? The pressure is entirely on us to ask YOU out. Until you've been in our shoes and taken the initiative to make the first move and ask someone out (and perhaps get rejected), you won't know how badly the chips are stacked against the guys. Bottom line.
Now, I have no problem paying for dinner, opening a door, making breakfast, or even asking a girl out. What I do have a problem with is a woman who *expects* to have things catered for her, to have whatever she wishes come to her. Show me a girl who has the confidence and initiative to do something about getting what she wants, and I'll show you a girl I'll happily ask out.
Long entry apologies, but I had to. As for your question.... Now what? Try asking that guy you like out. He'll think it's hot.
HAHAHAHA! Love the shout out NIK! You think I'm completely oblivious!? wtf!?
Oh there's so much you don't know, my friend. Ask your ol' pal Vlameo about it.
As for your stance on who should ask out who, I'm a little disappointed.
Chips stacked against you? Hardly. Girls never have to work for dates. They dress up and go out and they get their pick of the litter.
I think it's a double standard. You can't complain about not being equal and then only expect the guy to make first moves.
It's a luxury that every girl gets... and has come to depend on.
Can't a guy like it when a girl has a goal (me) in mind and goes for it? I mean, I can't speak for us all, but I'd be pretty flattered.
yes, life is unfair. the task of the "first approach" generally falls on your shoulders, not ours, and i'm perfectly willing to acknowledge the kind of balls that takes.
you can also pee standing up and will never experience the pain of shooting an 8lb human body out your vagina. it's a wash.
lastly, i'm certainly not opposed to asking someone out. maybe if there was someone out there worth asking out, i would.
-raises glass-
so@24 you're adorable, adorably clueless, but there's hope yet. don't you have half the women on your blog lusting after you? i'm sure there are some in LA. handle it already.
all we have to do is get dressed up and go out. do you hear this ladies? i wish it were that easy. i think val hit it on the head when she said if there were someone worth asking out, she would. they are so few and far in between.
i didn't say anything about expecting to be catered to. however, don't you like it? who doesn't? i just don't think it should be one-sided. reciprocity is my favorite word. trust when i say that i will cater to the man that caters to me (this is why i have old boyfriends who keep trying to get back together).
i'm sorry, but i still think that the odds are stacked against the girls. the pressure is more for a woman because these are new times and asking a guy out is such a new idea. it's foreign territory and from the way you guys sound, it's not much fun. i have a challenge for you. find a girl that really interests you, wait for her to ask you out. then come back and tell me how it feels to wait.
jersysjov and trixie - gotta love the go-gettas
i'm getting the disctinct feeling that these two parties will never see eye-to-eye on this one.
yes, it generally falls in the man's lap. yes, it is difficult. yes, we ladies should give it a try at least once, if only to appreciate how frightening it can really be.
but sometimes life's not fair, so while i believe that no one (male or female) should "expect" things from the opposite sex ...
it's working in our favor, so why fix what ain't broke
ok, i can definitely see both sides of the argument here. traditionally, guys just knew it was "their job" to do the asking, pursue the lady, whatever. but i think what nik is referring to is a new expectation placed on women in today's society to handle it all. we make our own money now, buy our own houses, have demanding careers and pretty much go after whatever the hell we want and no longer wait for a man to get those things for us (as has been the fact for decades past). so with all this new found independence also comes a new expectation to be the go-getter when it comes to men and relationships. it's a vicious cycle in my opinion that men no longer feel the need to "step up" so to speak, cause really, they don't HAVE to any more. there doesn't seem to be that much driving them since women are now taking the drivers seat more and more and calling the shots.
so where does that leave the women who are independent and don't NEED a man, but definitely want one - and one who is a gentleman and "knows how to treat a lady?" i'm not saying they aren't out there - but nik is right, they are definitely a dying breed.
I understand that we all like to be pursued. That is obvious, something we can take for granted. But Nik, you contradict yourself several times and your argument falls apart.
You wax poetic about how reciprocity is your favorite word, how "it shouldn't be one-sided" yet immediately reassert how it should be the guy's responsibility to ask you out, which, let's be honest, is by FAR the hardest and most unpleasant part of the whole ordeal. Yes of course you'll cater to the guy after he throws himself out there--that's easy. That's actually enjoyable to do--I love doing things for my significant other. Basically you're saying reciprocity is your M.O., then offering guys a terrible deal--the man should bake the entire cake, then you'll eat it.
Fact--the chips are not stacked against the girls. Bottom line. Until you've been in our shoes, dealing with the expectations of the opposite sex (which you have clearly stated your allegiance to) and society as a whole, you have no idea what kind of smooth ride you have. I've done the waiting thing as well as the approach. I've seen both sides of the coin. Frankly, waiting is far more pleasant. And in closing, this is 2008. The idea of women asking men out is not new. Sadie Hawkins day, the day where "girls chase boys" and the antecedent of the classic Sadie Hawkins Dance has been around since 1939.
Here's a deal--I'll do the waiting thing like you suggested next time I meet a girl I like... as long as you promise to approach and ask out the next guy you're interested in. Sound fair? Or would you like to switch?...
Reciprocity makes the world go round.
While AGP pointed out that the country is 50.7% female, I'll point out that right now that there are 4 women graduating from university for every 3 men, thus there are more eligible women than men in the educated 20+ somethings dating market. What this really has to do with pursuing and being pursued, I don't really know, but I do think that simple statistic shows that the chips are stacked against us, at least just a little.
Oh and here's the source:
http://www.slate.com/id/2182089/entry/2182090/
Oh, how lively a discussion!
I've been MIA lately (two jobs...yargh) but I really have to weigh in on this.
I, being the Libra I am, completely empathize and understand both sides of the situation, not only in theory but in practice.
I have often been the one to initiate first/second contact. I've sent the email asking if that person wanted to hang. I've given my number to someone I've gotten a vibe from. And what has it always gotten me? Not a damn worthwhile thing. Will I stop initiating contact? No, because that's just how I roll. I don't really care for dancing to other people's drums.
We can argue back and forth forever about who has it rougher and etcetera but I think both sides have it pretty rough for different reasons. Both men and women are struggling with evolving gender roles and, regardless on who is expected to do what, everyone is trying to do what they think is right.
And guys, to say that all a girl has to do is get gussied up and wink at a dude to bag him is totally not true...not when you have standards. No one has to be alone. You can always have any body...but no one wants just any body, they want somebody. Someone special to make them feel all tingly and giddy.
So, the next time you want to bitch because it's so hard to meet anyone, just take a look around and notice how many "potentials" you're not talking to because they don't meet one of your criteria.
There are plenty of fishes out there but why settle for a sardine when you can catch a shark?
I agree about the manners. I love when a guy opens up my car door and lets me order first. I am as modern as the next girl, but there is a time and a place for everything. Some old-fashioned rules should always be followed.
you have to take into account what we've been taught to expect from the opposite sex, which has been touched on already, so i hope i don't repeat too much stuff.
basically, in every movie that i watched when i was very small, a girl would sit around singing with animals until prince charming would roll up at which point everything was big pink dresses and even more singing.
in the movies that i watched as a tween, some plucky heroine would trod along being quasi-feminist and sarcastic, but would eventually be swept off her feet by the most popular boy in school.
and forget music...if it's not some woman singing about how she'll never forget the love of her life its a man telling us about how many girls, girls, girls he has in his life.
pop culture is telling me that while i can be as plucky and quasi-feminist as i desire, my life won't be complete until some jock takes me to prom. or until i sleep with jay-z.
how many girls did you know in middle-highschool that would act dumb in order to not intimidate, and therefore appear more attractive to, the boys?
when's the last time you saw a movie where the female romantic lead wasn't totally adorable regardless of how dumpy or nerdy the male lead was [perfect example- knocked up]?
one of you guys said that all we have to do is put on heels and guys will be fawning over us. well what if id rather have a guy like me because of my personality? so you're saying that men are willing to extend themselves for girls who look nice regardless of how they act?
that translates for me into not bothering asking guys out because you're a bunch of superficial shmucks who are secretly too insecure to ask someone out.
jerseyjov - haha! excellent post. superficial schmucks! too funny
t!! - glad to have you back. i always love your insight into issues
trixie- thanks for the link. i was too lazy to look it up myself, but it expressed everything i was thinking.
now i'm off to think of another topic.
I swear, Disney movies are such a bad influence on girls.
it's so refreshing to know there are other smart females out there!
and yes, IF i ever have kids i think i'm completely forbiding Disney movies. those are the absolute worst. prince charming my ass :)
It's ironic that it's "Prince Charming" since the two Disney princes most equated with the name - from Snow White and Cinderella - are the most useless of them all and rarely interacted with their respective princesses.
I could easily write a 90-page about this kind of stuff...
Post a Comment